Tape transcript of the Preble Town Board meeting 10/9/2000.

Transcribed by, and comments from Frank Hogg 10/10/2000

Some of the board members did not talk loud enough to be heard clearly. I can run the tape through some audio enhancement tools I have but I didn't think it necessary for this. When you see two dashes '--' that indicates a section of tape that is garbled. My thoughts and comments are in italics and are not part of the recording.

John Steger started the discussion about dropping the ZBA to 5 members.

Betty Ann Pitman (BAP) "I've heard comments both ways. I think what your best bet is to go ahead and have a meeting and have input from the public. Instead of this -- comments from the public."

Now they want public input. Last month it was the public be damned.

Mumbling garbled.

Del Knapp. (Member of the ZBA) "Seven heads are better than five."

BAP? "Used to be always five."

Del Knapp. "Seven heads are better than five."

Anne Brennen (AB) "Well it's not up to us to make the determination anyway, it's up to the public, that would be made at the public hearing. And if then we should let the people decide. So lets have a public hearing."

(Don Armstrong then went on a long discussion about the board having an informal public hearing but then they would have to have another public hearing if they decided to go ahead with this. The board did not want to have two public hearings so they decided to go with an ordinance and have just one public hearing. After all why waste any more time on this than needed.)

Pass a resolution tonight to have a proposed ordinance that would reduce the ZBA from 7 to 5.

AB "Why have the middle step when we could have the public hearing?"

AB "Well OK whatever it takes to have the ordinance or whatever, have the public hearing."

Stan Kogut "What's the advantage?"

Stan Kogut "What's the advantage of going down to a 5-member board?"

AB "There are some people Stan, that do not want it to stay at 7 members. They want it to go back to 5. In order to make it fair to everybody we'll have a public hearing and get everyone's input on it. Instead of listening to just one group of people, everyone's opinion."

Yeah... right... last month they weren't interested in anyone's opinion, much less everyone's opinion. The only reason they seem so 'reasonable' now is because it was illegal to do it the way they wanted to last month!

Stan Kogut "It doesn't make a difference of a balance does it? Just because you have 5 on the planning board?"

AB "Everyone has the right to make the decision not just one group of people." Unless of course that group of people is the town board! Everyone has their input, if they want it fine, if they don't... OK. It's up to them. It should be up to the public. That's the difference."

Frank Hogg "Sounds like you're going to take a vote at a public hearing."

AB "It sounds... We're listening to the people, we don't take a vote."

Frank Hogg "No no the way you're proposing it sounds like..." Anne cuts me off

AB "No you miss the... don't look into this. I'm being fair, don't listen to anything I say Frank." Huh? Don't listen to anything you say? I listened to the tape twice and that is what she said. OooooKay.

Frank Hogg "I'm just trying to clarify..." Anne cuts me off again

AB "The public hearing is to listen to all the people."

Frank Hogg "Umhmm"

AB "not just who is in this room right now. Lotta people ... couldn't come tonight. I think we should make it public, the public should ... Not this board or the few people in this room, the public." Welcome aboard Anne, where were you last month?

Frank Hogg "When you say the public should have the choice..."

AB "Yeah."

Frank Hogg "But the law is... you guys..." I pointed to the members of the board. "Are the ones that decide on it after a public hearing..."

AB "After we listen to the people."

Frank Hogg "Yeah, there is nothing in the law that says that you have to do what they (the people) suggest."

AB "No... but I think we are fair enough to use our heads about this, we can be fair. But you can't say I have not been fair... Mr. Hogg." WHAT! after last month now you're fair! I was so shocked by that brazen statement I was darn near speechless!

Frank Hogg "I'm not saying anything."

AB "Well you're suggesting a few things here." What the h...

Frank Hogg "No, I'm not, I'm not suggesting... a thing." (Anne was talking while I was saying this so I can't hear what she said on the tape.)

AB "OK let's be fair to all people."

Frank Hogg "Well no I'm..." (Anne talking while I'm talking) "wanting to clarify what you were saying..." (Anne did not stop talking while I talked. I was closer to my tape recorder and thus overpowered her words on the tape... pity that doesn't work in real life.)

AB "Well... I know, but you inferred a few things there. I don't want to argue about this. That's it." Boy is she touchy. What the h... is she talking about?? I wasn't arguing. You can listen to the tape and see (hear) for yourself.

Frank Hogg "Well I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to clarify what you said, that's it."

Some low mumbling among the board. They seemed confused by my comments. If I remember correctly they were looking at the zoning book to try to figure out what the law was. Don Armstrong was looking through his papers as well as the other board members. (I was amused by this confusion. I found it hard to believe that after last months debacle they would not have read the one page law that covers this.) All the board members are now talking at once and it is hard to distinguish one from the other. I hear Anne, Peter and Don on the tape. I remember all of them fumbling through their papers.

Stan Kogut "Is it a matter of economics? Does it cost the town more to have 7 members than 5?"

The board continues to look for the law; I continue to be amused by their total lack of knowledge about this. They clearly don't know the law and what they are doing. Don Armstrong doesn't seem to know either, which is incredible to me. He is a lawyer, specializing in town law and last month he got burned by his lack of knowledge on this very subject. Yet there he is fumbling, like the rest of them trying to figure out what they are about to do... Just Incredible!

Mumbling from the board... minute's pass by on the tape. Nothing important to transcribe. Peter is doing most of the talking about what the law is. Don is finally figuring it out and advising the board. Stan is still waiting for an answer.

BAP "I so move." (She is making the motion to do the law to change the board from 7 to 5.)

Don Armstrong (Recites the proper wording)

Kate Etinger "I second."

(They spend several minutes getting the dates figured out. Later in the meeting one of the board members answers Stan's question in the form of "No it does not cost any more to have 7 rather than 5 members on the ZBA.")

Final comments.

I found it lame that the board would act, and I mean act like doing a public hearing was the right thing to do. Again remember last month, when they broke the law.

After the meeting I was in the hall with Dan O'Shea (ZBA chairman). I questioned Dan about his opinion of changing the ZBA from 7 to 5. After a bit of hesitation he told he that when John Steger asked him about this several months ago he told John that he liked the board at 7 and didn't want to change it. I asked if he still felt that way and he said yes. I don't know of anyone on the ZBA who wants to reduce it to 5. The only ones are the town board and their cronies and the only reason is because the town board does NOT like the way Barb and Carl vote.

You can see after reading part one that the two leaders of the town board, Peter Knapp and John Steger, did not have a moral win in the last election. They may be the 'legal' leaders of the town but that is all. They deserve your scorn; they certainly have mine. All five of the town board members signed those letters to Barb and Carl last month. They to deserve you scorn, they have mine. They are not acting in the interest of the town. What they are doing is trying to tear this town apart for their selfish motives. They want to keep power and they don't give a damn who they hurt or what it costs the taxpayers. They have more than my scorn; they have my contempt.

Frank Hogg

(Must credit prebleny.com)